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a lot of experiments recently arriving

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on the cygnus cargo vehicle which docked

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with the international space station

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back on sunday

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yesterday i got a chance to catch up

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with one of the principal investigators

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of one of the more unique experience

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experiments that was brought on board

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so why don't we go ahead and take a

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listen to that now here on nasa tv

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so the cygnus resupply craft responsible

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for bringing over 2 700 pounds of

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supplies up to the crew of expedition 38

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among those supplies dozens of new

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experiments being brought on board the

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international space station probably one

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of the most unique and one of the most

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interesting on board is known as the

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ants in space joining me now the

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principal investigator for the project

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from the department of biology at

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stanford university professor debra m

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gordon professor thanks so much for

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joining me today i really appreciate it

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thanks for having me

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now as a professor of biology at

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stanford i've come to understand you

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study what's known as the evolutionary

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ecology of collective behavior now why

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is that you know an important research

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field and why are we studying ants in

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space to learn about it

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i study how systems work without any

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central control so in an ant colony

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nobody's in charge nobody tells anybody

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what to do

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and a lot of human engineered systems

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are like that too for example the

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internet

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or

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the problem that the ants are solving in

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space is a problem that we have to solve

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ourselves and it's the problem of how to

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search collectively how a group of

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individuals they could be ants they

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could be robots can search a space

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as effectively as possible without any

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central control

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so

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this experiment is about expandable

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search networks it's about how ant can

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adjust the shape of their paths

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to search a space in the best possible

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way adjusting their searching to the

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number of ants and the size of the space

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it's the same problem that a group of

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robots have to solve if they enter a

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burning building and have to figure out

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where to go and whether there's anything

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going on anything that needs to be fixed

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anybody that needs to be rescued

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and we'd like to be able to design a

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system and algorithm for robots to do

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that

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without

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with as little information as possible

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because that's the cheapest way to do it

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and that's a problem that ants have had

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150 million years of evolution to come

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up with great solutions

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okay and so we obviously know a lot

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about the evolution of ants up until

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this point so specifically for this

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experiment what was what were your

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guys's thoughts going into this what

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hypothesis were you working from

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well we know something about how ants on

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earth organize their searching

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collectively they adjust the shape of

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their paths so that

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when there are a few ants in a large

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space they use very straight paths to

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cover a lot of ground but when there are

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many ants in a small space

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they can

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be more thorough and each ant can take a

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much more convoluted path turning round

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and round in order to cover more ground

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because an ant searching thoroughly in

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one place can afford to do that because

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there'll be another ant nearby searching

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next door

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and they can afford to do that when

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they're very crowded

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so how do they know

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how crowded they are how do they assess

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density they use the rate at which they

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meet

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but in microgravity

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information about

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density isn't perfect in microgravity

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because the way that they walk around is

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influenced by

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the lack of gravity by that very basic

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orientation that they get from gravity

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being missing

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then the rate at which they meet won't

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correspond to density exactly

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so the hypothesis that we're testing is

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how in microgravity with imperfect

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information do ants adjust their paths

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to density

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okay and that was this was literally one

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of the first things to come out of the

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cygnus craft once it was docked and uh

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nas astronaut rick mastracchio was able

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to set it up on monday

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and actually execute the experiment can

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you describe uh just what happened or

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kind of what some of your early

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observations were from the experiment

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yes

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well the experiment consists of um ants

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in a rectangular

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arena with two barriers

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so they traveled confined in a very

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narrow nest area and then

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uh put the barrier down so that there

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were a lot of ants searching a small

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area and

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you'd expect them to use very convoluted

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paths because they can afford to be

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thorough when they're crowded and then

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the second barrier went down so then

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they were in a larger space so suddenly

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density has gone down it's as though

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there are a few ants in a big area and

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they have to stretch out the network of

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paths they have to use straighter paths

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and so the experiment consisted of

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seeing how the ants would adjust their

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paths when their density changed and it

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looks as though they

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had a little trouble in microgravity the

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arena was very

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shallow the ceiling was very low so they

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weren't floating around but still they

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had to work harder to just to move and

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so

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their interactions with each other were

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influenced by that and so we're going to

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be now analyzing the data to see how

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exactly they used the rate of

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interaction to adjust their searching

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okay and

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another thing that struck me is pretty

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pretty cool about this study is you guys

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are also going to be kind of reaching

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out to classrooms and students to do

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their own versions of this experiment

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can you talk a little bit about that

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this is a really simple experiment that

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anyone can do and with very simple cheap

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materials anybody can test how their

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local favorite ants

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are searching collectively how they're

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working together to cover ground and be

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effective searchers

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and i think that probably the invasive

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species that we tend to see in our

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kitchens all around the world are there

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because for one thing they're really

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good at searching and so i think it'll

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be really interesting if kids around the

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world try this experiment with different

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kinds of ants and then we're going to

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have a central database compare the

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results and see how ants in different

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places operate as searchers

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so it's interesting to see not just how

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they do it in gravity and microgravity

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but how they do it in different kinds of

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ecological conditions in different

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places

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and i mean that definitely sounds good i

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mean what kids don't like playing with

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bugs so it could definitely be a really

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cool way to you know get young kids

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interested in math and science so

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obvious next steps for your research

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you're going to be analyzing the data do

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you have any you know further outlooking

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plans flying more ants any other type of

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insect that might work with that swarm

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mentality

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i've learned in the course of talking to

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people about this experiment that there

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are a lot of really interesting

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biological changes that go on in

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microgravity for example the way that

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nutrients circulate around cells the way

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that genes are expressed

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and so i think that we really have a lot

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to learn about how collective behavior

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operates by trying it in space

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so if i'm invited again to design more

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research

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i would definitely say yes

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would you be using ants again you think

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they seem to have quite a bit of

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evolutionary history behind them

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yes there's uh ants

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well ants have evolved collective

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behavior what we call in robotics

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distributed algorithms for accomplishing

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a lot of different tasks and i think

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that we really have a lot to learn from

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the ants

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well in the words of a famous tv newsman

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i for one welcome our new insect

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overlords

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uh well

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i mean again fascinating study i really

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appreciate you taking some time out to

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give us the nuts and bolts of this we

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really look forward to uh seeing your

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results again uh principal investigator

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for ants in space professor deborah m

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gordon from stanford university thank